80 years, America tears itself down and rebuilds. 1776. 1865. 1945. And now, according to Peter Leyden, 2025.

A couple of months ago I sat down with Peter for SingularityFM. He’s the guy who co-wrote the 1997 “Long Boom” cover story for WIRED, and he’s spent three decades trying to map where this civilization is actually headed. His new book, The Great Progression (HarperCollins), makes an audacious claim:

AI, clean energy, and bioengineering are converging into a change on the scale of the Enlightenment. And Trump, in his framing, isn’t the future. He’s the wrecking ball that clears the ground for whatever comes next.

I didn’t let him off easy. I pushed him on the human cost every one of these reinventions has demanded in the past. I pushed him on the myth of golden ages, using Ada Palmer’s work on the Renaissance. I pushed him on Denmark and Norway ripping devices back out of classrooms after being early adopters. He had an answer for all three. Whether they hold up is for you to decide.

What we get into:

The email from Kevin Kelly that pulled Peter into WIRED’s founding years What the Long Boom thesis got right, and what it missed Why he calls Trump a wrecking ball, not a builder The coming “abundance politics” coalition The strange pessimism about AI unique to English-speaking countries How writing this book with AI made him 2 to 3x more productive.

I told Peter I’m a pessimist of the intellect and an optimist of the spirit. I hope he’s right. I’m not convinced yet. But this conversation moved me closer to hope than most.

Watch or listen: [ https://snglrty.co/3QG63Nj](https://snglrty.co/3QG63Nj)

#AI #Futurism #Innovation #Technology #Podcast

Peter Leyden on The Great Progression: 2025 to 2050, the fourth reinvention of America, the positive reframe of AI and Trump, and the next 25 years.