We speak with Sakana AI, who are building nature-inspired methods that could fundamentally transform how we develop AI systems.

The guests include Chris Lu, a researcher who recently completed his DPhil at Oxford University under Prof. Jakob Foerster’s supervision, where he focused on meta-learning and multi-agent systems. Chris is the first author of the DiscoPOP paper, which demonstrates how language models can discover and design better training algorithms. Also joining is Robert Tjarko Lange, a founding member of Sakana AI who specializes in evolutionary algorithms and large language models. Robert leads research at the intersection of evolutionary computation and foundation models, and is completing his PhD at TU Berlin on evolutionary meta-learning. The discussion also features Cong Lu, currently a Research Scientist at Google DeepMind’s Open-Endedness team, who previously helped develop The AI Scientist and Intelligent Go-Explore.

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Rather than simply scaling up models with more parameters and data, they’re drawing inspiration from biological evolution to create more efficient and creative AI systems. The team explains how their Tokyo-based startup, founded in 2023 with $30 million in funding, aims to harness principles like natural selection and emergence to develop next-generation AI.