Comments on: The Cosmic-Rays-versus-White-Dwarfs Safety Argument https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument Safeguarding Humanity Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:16:47 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.2 By: Otto E. Rössler https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-139921 Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:16:47 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-139921 I appreciate your frankness, Tom

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By: Tom Kerwick https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-139888 Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:09:18 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-139888 Otto — if one writes a paper on the subject, it will reference previous relevant papers, and if you bothered to read my recent paper you would find that it is actually critical of the old safety report, though not on the same grounds that you are critical of the old safety report.

To answer your question as to whether I would attach the infinite weight you attribute to it, the answer would be No — but I do believe the report needs to be revisited — and updated.

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By: Otto E. Rossler https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-139833 Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:22:35 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-139833 Dear Tom:
Policing is never a kind activity, as you will no doubt concede.
You are definitely impeding the chances for CERN’s responding to its critics by uncritically picking bits and pieces out of their by more than 4 years outdated “safety report” as if they were scientific facts (especially their lepton radius of 10^-17 meters).
Please, make a statement as to whether you think the safety issue has the infinite weight I am attributing to it, or not.
Thank you, Otto

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By: Tom Kerwick https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-139776 Wed, 22 Aug 2012 08:20:06 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-139776 Otto — there has been no violence on my part — I find such a statement from you bizarre in the extreme — are you referring to my webadmin duties here on Lifeboat? Back to the subject matter — The paper above which I referred you to is maximally simplified. If there is a point you do not understand, we can discuss. What is the question I did not answer?

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By: Otto E. Rossler https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-139411 Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:33:01 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-139411 Dear Tom:

Is it too much of a nuisance if I ask you to answer my point above rather than referring to a maximally complicated and not yet very enlightening set of texts that in part are said to have been removed violently?

Making simple statements is required in cases of an un-disproved danger. Such statements I tried to make in the above updated text. Please, say where you disagree.

Even better: Please, use your good contacts to Giddings and Mangano to entice them to write an update on their for 4 years un-updated safety report? The whole planet is waiting as you know. Their firm’s continuing without any public justification given is nothing the public can accept.

Time is running out. Please, be so kind as to help us all, Otto

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By: Tom Kerwick https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-138715 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:48:48 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-138715 http://www.vixra.org/pdf/1208.0005v4.pdf

Otto — no I do not assume charged black holes — I assume uncharged back holes as this is the criteria you set. Please read my paper which references your concerns linked above — it is just five pages excluding the appendices.

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By: Otto E. Rossler https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-138685 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:42:03 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-138685 I asked you to explain what you meant: you seem to talk about quite sizeable black-hole radiuses here, right? And you seem to assume charged black holes already, right?

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By: Tom Kerwick https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-138570 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:54:50 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-138570 OK — about your last point — so there may be theoretical scenarios where high energy cosmic rays could include neutrons, and so be immune to WD magnetic fields, though there is no strong evidence of such as yet, so not useful in terms of safety assurance — no more than HR Theory is useful as a safety assurance.

About the first point — G&M derive the stopping distances within WD, caused by both a Coulomb effect where collisions result in a particle scattering and by accretion slow-down where the MBH absorbs particles, to be inversely proportional, not to the capture radius, but to the mass density near the capture radius. Therefore debating a smaller size MBH radius does not change the proposed stopping distance unless you can also find a weakness/oversight in the G&M derived eq for MBH stopping distances (see second half of G&M paper section 5.2.3 page 33).

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By: Otto E. Rossler https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-138481 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:06:19 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-138481 The first point I do not understand — forgive me. Can you explain?

The second point also deserves clarification to be integrated into the above text.

The third point is intriguing. I happen to believe in a new source for cosmic rays existing — black hole mergers. Here the unfinished smaller one’s infalling particles would be “recycled” through the formation of a “separatrix in spacetime” near the horizon of the larger one inside the latter’s Reeb foliation in spacetime (unpublished work with Dieter Fröhlich).

So the possibility of a sub-population in cosmic rays of ultra-fast neutrons is not entirely excluded so far, I feel. Cosmic-ray observatories should soon reveal whether identifiable “straight sources” exist apart from gamma ray sources.

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By: Tom Kerwick https://lifeboat.com/blog/2012/07/the-cosmic-rays-versus-white-dwarfs-safety-argument#comment-138425 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:17:58 +0000 http://lifeboat.com/blog/?p=4347#comment-138425 Otto — about a ‘prediction of a much higher collision rate with leptons for ultrafast natural mini-black holes inside white dwarfs’ — the G&M derivation on capture rates determine the accretion slowdown to be proportional to the mass density near the capture radius, and not the size of the capture radius. As we know the mass density in WD is much higher than in Earth, therefore so will the collision rates.

Also I should clarify that I believe the case of WD safety assurance is more concerned with the magnetic field estimates of distant WD, not of the MBH size.

As for uncharged CR, it is my understanding that these would not have been accelerated to sufficient energy levels to compare with LHC energies, or at least not have a known sufficiently high flux, to be considered in the safety debate — though if you know of some research which suggests otherwise please let me know, as it would endorse the safety assurances — in overcoming said magnetic field concerns.

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